Talk:Automatic quicken spell
Article name I'm not sure if it would be better to drop the "I - III" from the article name or set up a redirect like this. (I'm pretty sure having to type the Roman numerals in links is inconvenient at best.) I went for the redirect (even though the main article still needs to be included in the Great Renaming). --The Krit 06:50, 13 September 2006 (PDT) Vs improved combat casting According to the article, you do not create AOO when casting in combat with quickened spells. In that sense, am I right in saying it just rendered Improved Combat Casting COMPLETELY useless? Or does ICC actually offer something which Automatic Quicken Spell III doesn't? --196.209.251.3 April 2008 *First of all, improved combat casting is useless, because of defensive casting. ICC require 25 concentration and two feat, defensive casting require no feat and does exactly the same thing. The maximum DC is 9+15(1 on Concentration check dont fail the save) so 24 concentration when ICC require 25. By the way automatic quicken spell have only one advantage, he dont require a combat mode. So you can still Improved expertise but require 3 feat... Combat casting ¤Require 1 pre-epic feat ¤Require 1 epic feat ¤Require level 22 ¤Defensive casting does exactly the same thing whitout any prerequire ¤Require a combat mode Automatic quicken spell III ¤Require 1 pre-epic feat ¤Require 3 epic feat ¤Require level 27 ¤Dont require a combat mode. So ... ICC is only good on a server with expertise nerfed for caster and... is useless cause defensive mode does exactly the same thing. ILKAY 16:20, 30 April 2008 (UTC) :*The max DC is 9+15+4 if you don't have combat casting. If you want to go without a feat investment, you need 27 concentration to guarantee passing the defensive casting check. --The Krit 18:12, 30 April 2008 (UTC) :*ICC does offer things that Automatic Quicken Spell III does not. The shifted spells darkness and shadow attack are not affected by AutoQuicken III, though their AoO can be removed by ICC. Further you are incorrect about improved combat casting requiring a combat mode. The only major difference between automatic quicken III and improved combat casting is that quickened spells cast without haste allow less time to be interrupted than non-quickened spells without haste. ::Thus functionality wise this relationship generally holds (more usage/options signified as greater) :::ICC + haste > AutoQuicken III + haste > defensive casting + haste > AutoQuicken III > ICC > defensive casting ::Investment wise the following relationship holds (lower cost signified as greater) :::defensive casting > ICC > AutoQuicken III ::WhiZard 07:06, February 2, 2010 (UTC) ::* I believe ILKAY was saying that defensive casting requires a combat mode. (That is, "combat casting" was supposed to be "defensive casting", not a shortened form of "improved combat casting".) --The Krit 04:05, February 3, 2010 (UTC) :::* The list under combat casting did include the pre-reqs for ICC, and the statement "ICC is only good on a server with expertise nerfed for caster" seems to imply that he actually thought that ICC gave its own casting mode (distinct from defensive casting) that couldn't work with expertise. WhiZard 05:38, February 3, 2010 (UTC) ::::* I suppose a misconception that ICC is its own combat mode would be fairly consistent with what was written. *Shrug* ILKAY can be difficult to understand at times. Maybe this is one of the times when the intended meaning is not right. --The Krit 14:28, February 5, 2010 (UTC) *anyway. i think the 'no AoO' rule just counts for the one quickened spell per round. i think one of your 2 casts per round can still be AoOed against. and since haste is much better than AQS III, i wouldn't wast too much brainpower on these feats :D Gruftlord 22:29, 30 April 2008 (UTC) :*Can anybody confirm on the only one "no AoO" spell for "Automatic Quicken Spell" per round? Would be interesting to know. ::So in a sense, can you perhaps call Improved Combat Casting "a lazy man's defensive casting"? It's quite tedious for a Cleric to activate defensive casting every time he/she wants to throw in something like Storm of Vengeance/Firestorm/Prayer or even a heal. Not to mention it will be using up one of your precious hotkeys. --41.240.60.82 1 May 2008 ::*If there was still any doubt: There never is any AoO for an automatically quickened spell. (tested with patch 1.69 and spells at level 3,4 and 7) GW-Ts 11:58, 27 July 2008 (UTC) Reverted edit on casting time I reverted the following edit which replaced the older (and now current description of quicken vs. haste). *These feats have a similar effect on casting speed as the spell haste, however autoquickened casting speed is non-dispelable. *Haste does not further increase the casting speed that autoquickened feats provide, but it does prevent being countered by a non-hastened mage. :Reasons :1) The spell haste has the same effect as any other source of haste. :2) The casting time for quickened and haste is the same (half a round). Both allow for a second casting. :3) While the spell is dispellable there is no reason to bring the spell up in the first place. --WhiZard February 2, 2010 * Saves me the trouble of reverting it, for basically the same reasons. ;) --The Krit 04:09, February 3, 2010 (UTC) Similar edit made again, and I'm reverting it for the same reasons. --The Krit 10:47, August 2, 2010 (UTC) 30 Spellcraft at Character Level 21 Does the spellcraft requirement refer to the base or the modified skill rank? Is it even possible to get 30 ranks in spellcraft by sorcerer/wizard level 21? 19:25, August 31, 2015 (UTC) * A 10 rogue / 17 wizard can have 30 ranks in spellcraft, so, yes, it is rather easy to do so when you allow another 4 levels in the mix. --The Krit (talk) 03:05, September 1, 2015 (UTC) :* Not at Level 27, but at level 21. How do you get 30 ranks of spellcraft at level 21 if your skill cap is Level+3 (24) ? Does the feat refer to the rank after buffs/ability score, or does it go by the base ranks? 19:04, September 1, 2015 (UTC)Anonymous Wizard ::* You had written "sorcerer/wizard level 21" not "character level 21", so that's what I answered. The answer to your other question may be inferred from my above answer. --The Krit (talk) 05:20, September 2, 2015 (UTC) ::* BioWare makes sure all its epic feats that are selectable require character level 21, whether or not this requirement is redundant to other requirements for a PC leveling up. WhiZard (talk) 14:18, September 2, 2015 (UTC) I meant to say sorcerer level 21 or wizard level 21. That is, character level 21 as a pure sorcerer or pure wizard. Is there a way to get base skill rank 31 in spellcraft by then? (so as to take Automatic Quicken Spell I as soon as possible, and hence subsequently take Automatic Quicken Spell III as soon as possible) Are wizards able to get Automatic Quicken Spell III earlier than sorcerers due to having bonus feats? 22:29, September 2, 2015 (UTC) *A character cannot meet the spellcraft requirements for this feat before character level 27. Skill requirements for feats refer to skill ranks, so neither high ability scores nor skill-enhancing feats contribute to meeting the requirements. The "21st level" prerequisite listed is redundant for this feat. A "pure" sorcerer or wizard could not take all three of the Automatic Quicken spell feats before level 30. - MrZork (talk) 23:52, September 2, 2015 (UTC) *A single-classed wizard cannot get AutoStill AutoQuicken III any sooner than a single-classed sorcerer. Despite wizard's having more pre-epic bonus feats, sorcerers and wizards have the same progression of epic bonus feats. Both can get AutoStill AutoQuicken III at level 30 and neither can get it any earlier. - MrZork (talk) 22:35, September 3, 2015 (UTC) * No, you did say sorcerer level 21 or wizard level 21. What you meant was character level 21. When you prefix "level" with a class, it means you are referring to class level. Leaving off the class opens the possibility of referring to character level. (Think about your question for a minute – why do you care about single-classed? That doesn't affect the skill rank limit. Your question as intended would have been just as valid for a multi-classed level 21 character. In the future, you'd be better off dropping the distracting details and say what you mean.) Oh, and if you were to create an account, you wouldn't run into that issue of your IP address changing each time you visit. ;) --The Krit (talk) 03:01, September 13, 2015 (UTC) For what it's worth, a multiclassed caster can get AutoStill AutoQuicken III as early as character level 28. - MrZork (talk) 22:47, September 3, 2015 (UTC) : Could you please give the details? And does it apply to only Auto Still 3 or to all the Auto 3 metamagic feats? 10:08, September 4, 2015 (UTC) :MrZork, do you realize that you changed the subject from AutoQuicken to AutoStill? Auto Quicken III can be done at character level 28 earliest for multiclassed, and 30 for pure. Auto Still III can be done at character level 25 earliest for multiclassed, and 27 for pure. Auto Silent III can be done at character level 22 earliest for multiclassed, and 24 for pure. WhiZard (talk) 15:01, September 4, 2015 (UTC) *Oops. Yes. I was talking about about AutoQuicken III and my comments were for that feat. Corrected. - MrZork (talk) 15:59, September 4, 2015 (UTC) ::@WhiZard, so what you're basically saying is that: ::once a pure sorcerer reaches character (and class) level 27 (and hence 30 spellcraft) and takes Auto Quicken 1, the character can then take 1 level of fighter at the very next level up (character level 28) to gain 2 bonus feats for Auto Quicken 2 and 3? ::*There may be more than one way to do this, but I wasn't recommending a level of fighter, since the epic metamagic feats are not fighter bonus feats. However, they are Champion of Torm bonus feats. So, one can use a level progression something like 1-25: W; 26: CoT; 27: W (spellcraft 30 + AutoQuicken I & II); 28: CoT (AutoQuicken III). Obviously, one would have to use a feat earlier on for weapon focus to qualify for CoT. A similar scheme (at earlier levels) may also be employed for the other AutoX spell feats. - MrZork (talk) 17:34, September 4, 2015 (UTC) ::Thanks for explaining the scheme. I think I'm getting it. In the example you gave above, you let wizard's (or sorcerer's) level 26 epic bonus feat coincide with character level 27 (and spellcraft 30), which allows you to take 2 feats (the other one being the regular feat for every 3 character levels). Then, you let CoT's bonus feat at level 2 coincide with with character level 28. ::At the bottom of this article (where the categories are), it lists the 8 classes that can take this feat (CoT, cleric, druid, PM, RDD, shifter, sorcerer, wizard), and CoT has a bonus feat at the earliest class level (level 2) of all the 8 classes. The next earliest seems to be wizard (class level 5). ::Spellcraft isn't a class skill for CoT (and shifter) though. So, is it still possible to raise it when taking a level of CoT? :: :::Assuming that you are buying the most spellcraft you could on your caster levels, you would not be able to buy any on your CoT levels. But, it wouldn't matter as you could make up for it by buying additional ranks on the caster level that followed a CoT level. That way, per the plan above, you would have 28 ranks at level 25, buy no new ranks on the CoT level at 26, then buy 2 ranks at character level 27 when you are taking another mage level. So, you would have 30 ranks in spellcraft and qualify for AutoQuicken. - MrZork (talk) 20:53, September 4, 2015 (UTC)